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Post #31 Subject: Posted at: July 8 2022, 10:38:58 pm

Winter Wendigo Donator Gender: Female

Rank: #8 Good
Posts: 248

Nah mate if they where so useless youd not be so hell bent on buying them off every player.

Youd not give out as you put it " more than they are worth " the fact of the matter is players who do them do them for good reason. I think its a valid idea to make then worth more as your arguments have been helpful twords my point even though youve insulted me... again if I'm wrong and they are so useless it's all the more reason for them to become more useful to help players in the future and encourage them to do them on their own and be seen as a less tedious task .

Ive been kind and cordial here stated that not only myself but many others have good ideas . We all play the game differently were here to give positive game shaping ideas not squabble like babies as you so kindly put it .

We can both be kind and have valid points. With out insults I can keep my peace and remain respectful :) more inner calmness that way try it sometime might build vrs destroy some time. I still respect many options here posted today and think this is a wonderful debate and discussion amoung others that will not only help shape game and play but also help us to learn each other as players better .

Post #32 Subject: Posted at: July 9 2022, 3:50:27 am

Stabz Donator Gender: Female

Rank: #6 Average
Posts: 99

I never said the items were useless so again, all your points invalid. If you cannot read, itís fine.

I am done trying to explain lol
Post #33 Subject: Posted at: July 10 2022, 1:13:17 am

Punisher P Donator Gender: Male

Rank: #4 Not Experienced
Posts: 16

Hey all, I want to ask an open question to all members of this game, regardless of age, level or experience:

What makes you personally strive for the top spot on CW? and if you aren\'t currently, what changes would you like to see that might make it worthwhile for you?

For instance, maybe you feel like just doing it to have the highest level isn\'t worth it, but would your opinion change if there were perks to holding the top spots? what about monthly rewards for those who gain the most levels in their respective training bracket?

All ideas are welcome, no matter how \"out there\" they might seem :)

I have absolutely no want or will to try to spend my time reaching the tip top of the player list. Auto clickers make it impossible for anyone behind to get to the top. On top of that, automatic training sucks, log in just to train and walk off. Yeah body has time to be here to play but get to stay on the top?!?? Fucking fluke!

Violet, exp is important yes. But that 20% exp per 1k steps you gain isnít worth it. Example you sell the steps for 40k extra per than what you make. 40k will buy you enough crystals to give you more exp than what youíd gain per step.

i donít understand whatís so hard to understand? Unless itís just Ďsomething for you to doí and pass time, itís not worth it. But In your case youíre aiming to be a higher level.

A lot of members are like this and I believe thereís no use in trying to help them if they wonít listen.

I remember you all in my messages wanting to buy my supplies from me. Hell, who the hell knows, that could be why you are so hard up to run at me. Funny stuff. So don't sit here and try to unconsciously convince anyone to sell you steps or items at low ball prices. They are ABSOLUTELY vital to being put to use and grow the account and I don't even play that much but I noticed.

Now back to how to make things better...

Get rid of the automatic training, add an extra item like... oh idk... something to help with an overdose like Narcan. Maybe give back half of the drugs. People don't like wasting supplies anywhere. Stop coddling the top players so much when they don't even spend the time here. Donators already get plenty to play after they pay, so focus on ways to get players to stick around to want to actually play and maybe they might be more interested to donate.

Post #34 Subject: Posted at: July 10 2022, 4:19:01 am

Stabz Donator Gender: Male

Rank: #6 Average
Posts: 99

Right back at you bud, look at you trying to be smart. You never will be a Ďgoodí player on any game with more than 5 users. Everything I said went right over your head. Every top players knows what I mean, whereas you donít, and thatís why your ranked 106 or whatever.

Let me take spirit level as an example.

It takes me 16m crystals to level up. It takes you 2m. I pay you 10m for the item, that way I save 6m and you make 8m. But because youíre an idiot and you love using your items because theyíre vital, you use the spirit level and lose out on a potential 8m crystals profit.
Last edited by Cheese at July 10 2022, 11:03:54 am, edited 1 times in total.
Post #35 Subject: Posted at: July 12 2022, 11:19:01 pm

Cheese Donator Gender: Male Staff

Rank: #6 Average
Posts: 67

Hey all,

Firstly, I'd just like to apologise for going absent on this thread for so long, and also say a massive thank you to everyone who has engaged with this topic. I've seen a few faces around here who don't usually talk that much, it's been great to get a more diverse range of opinions on the direction of the game :) I will try to respond to every point that has been raised, while also giving some of my own thoughts, but please let me know if Iíve missed anything out.

So firstly, the elephant in the room: manual training. I fully understand why some of you would like to see manual training return to the game, even I have some nostalgia for the old days of training, however I'm afraid it's just not something we can see happening. The auto-training system was first introduced to allow for more consistent and fairer levelling, while also considering that people have busy lives outside of the game. If we were to remove the auto-trainer, anyone who has a full-time job can immediately rule themselves out of the competition for 1st. As well as this, removing the auto-trainer at this stage would also give current high-stat players a huge advantage, as even with the gym multipliers it would be almost impossible for a new player to catch up to the top players.

Speaking of gym multipliers and fairness, many of the updates to training in recent years have been geared towards allowing a fiercer fight for the top. Training costs based on level, multipliers, the tier system; these were all attempts to speed up the levelling process and allow new players to compete for the top faster than ever before. These measures have been successful in varying degrees, and yet as others have pointed out here, have also led to a stagnant game experience. I personally like the suggestions of making the gym effectiveness drop-off harsher, and making more sources give exp across the game. I also like the suggestion of reducing gym exp gains, however this does come with a significant balance issue for the game. In the same vein as removing the auto-trainer completely, drastically reducing exp gains from the gym would make it much harder for new players to catch up, unless the amount of exp from other sources in the game was boosted massively to compensate. This is not to say I think it canít be done, just that further modelling is required to ensure it supports a fair game experience.

As for the economy concerns raised, if possible, we would like to avoid any further blocks on item trading. Brave potions are considered an exception, and in all other regards we would rather leave items as tradeable commodities. As mentioned by Trex and Nabeel, the current version of power potions and steps were both balanced in such a way to allow beneficial trades for lower levels; the amount of exp gained by them is consistent regardless of level, meaning they are functionally more valuable to high level players. This is a core aspect of the economy and levelling on CW, and so we will not be introducing more trade blocked items at this time.

My take-away from the above points so far is that activity needs to be at least equally as important to gaining levels as training, if not more so. This is something we have already been working on, as many of you may have noticed, in recent updates exp has been buffed across all areas of the game. However, based on this thread it appears that further buffs may be needed. My personal approach to this would be to calculate how many instances of exp are currently attainable in a 24-hour period, and should the current balance be something like 80:20 gym to other sources, alter this to something more like 40:60. Obviously this is only my initial thoughts, and doesnít take into account varying exp gains in the gym, but to me it seems an avenue worth investigating.

Thank you again to everyone who has contributed to this thread, I think I've covered most points raised here, but if there's anything I've skimmed over or you have any further ideas, let me know and I'll post a follow-up!
Post #36 Subject: Posted at: July 16 2022, 2:06:51 pm

Admin Scrooge Donator Gender: Male Staff

Rank: #8 Good
Posts: 242

Would like to thank all that have taken the time to comment here.
I will outline my thoughts and some potential solutions.

1) Manual training - This wonít return in its classic form, auto training was implemented to allow the less active to still compete, level up regarding a memberís computer and connection speed along with removing any scripting or other advance techniques.
Manual training would serve to reenable the divides and is a backtrack that is not in the best interest of the game.
That being said, efforts have been made over time to bring back that manual training feel with less demand but keeping fairness, this resulted in the introduction of the efficiency effect.
Manual training ultimately being bigger gains for longer activity, the efficiency requiring validation being a very easy alternative but having the same effect.

Drugs are set to be revised, the main revision that has a link to the manual training suggestion here is that there will be a drug offering or general EXP gain for making drugs.
As a result, members can grind drugs, limited by the drugs refresh cycles to avoid abuse however retaining that manual feel just like training. You then are rewarded for you time online in this area.

2) Gym efficiency rate - Recently gym efficiency was adjusted to be a higher decrease and capped at 50%. I deemed this sufficient as this is 48% reduction in 12 hours. Although the suggestion to increase this further beyond the 50% bottom limit I feel this is too harsh.
My thinking is after 12 hours you have lost 50% of your training output and if you continue this until the max 24 hours this is a significant reduction. I'm open to changing this but the argument(s) set out as of now are not sufficient enough for such a change I feel.

3) Experience gains - Already on this list is to add EXP gains to multiple areas of the game making it more desirable to be online and grind sections for that additional edge. I see some suggestions on how this can be done in certain areas and they will be taken into account when updates are being made.
When it comes to EXP from existing areas like crimes, mining etc, Iím yet to decide on if the rates will change, recently they were already significantly bumped, and with all EXP gains the bigger picture is taken into account. You may get x amount of EXP from steps but then go on to get x amount from crimes.
Looking at EXP gains from one area is not sufficient as over bumping EXP in single areas combined could lead to massive gains destroying 1000s of levels in hours. It's a fine balance and combining this with EXP gains being added site wide I will have to evaluate all EXP gains obtainable in the future to ensure rates site wide are fair.
Mentions of selling supplies (steps, power potions) which is a benefit to higher levels which at the moment is a fair statement. Higher members normally pay way more than the value to obtain this edge. A possible solution linked to what I talk about in section 6 below.

4) Activity - Was a suggestion for bonus in the gym for taking part in hide n seek, battle ladder, I feel this goes in line with the EXP gains update, I donít think it should be linked to the gym itself but it should have a EXP gaining potential to make it more desirable for members were levels matter.

5) Item Limits - There is no plans to impose limits on sending any items at this time.

6) Gymnasium - As is the gymnasium is the primary level generator, updates above will push this to be more of a contributor minus stats as this will always be a gymnasium thing.
Some call for lower EXP in training which by design is the case the higher you level, this is normally negated by adding new houses, rinse repeat.
As declared some months ago, no more houses will be added. Additionally, the next house is far away so EXP will drop off in training for very high levels, the new house unlock will compensate for this and then ultimately reduce more harshly as levels increase and no additional houses are added.
Housing upgrades were going to be added however I decided in the end that its effect would have no benefit to the game other than removing more game money from the wealthy. It would serve in no way to make a difference to the top members of the game and would serve to add a bigger gap between the new and older members.

As members will be aware, tier system was added to training, this way allows a catch up for new members to the game, itís obvious as a game gets older and a new members join, without help they would never catchup to a significant position.
Tier system has been adjusted a couple of times in the past however it's obvious that the tier system is flawed as is because it does not take into account levels added over time.
So, where the adjustment was valid, example (40,000 tier 3) and top level say (41,000) eventually becomes scuffed if the top member of the game pulls away from other tier 3 members.
This pull away effect is negative in its own right and furthermore this pull away channels down to the lower tiers as well so itís in effect working but is depreciating against the top member of the game rather than adjusting to the current environment.

Listed below are my proposals for gymnasium and EXP gains in general across the site.
I will allow discussions to proceed here, there will be two polls run to gauge if itís something the game members want.

Proposal 1) Gym tier system in relation to EXP should be implemented site wide. For example, if you were to get 2% EXP from the lucky boxes @ level 40,000 it would be 4% @ level 30,000.
This way lower levels get the boost required to advance quicker, catchup just as the gym tier system does.

Proposal 2) Gymnasium tier system revision. A new tier 4 system to be implemented with max multiplier of 100.
Tier system to be dynamic rather than fixed like the example below.

Example 1
Tier 1 - 40% < Max Level = 50,000 | Level 20,000 (X100 Max)
Tier 2 - 60% < Max Level = 50,000 | Level 30,000 (X50 Max)
Tier 3 - 1000 Levels < Max Level = 50,000 | Level 49,000 (X20 Max)
Tier 4 - Base => Level 49,000 (X10 Max)

Example 2
Tier 1 - 40% < Max Level = 60,000 | Level 24,000 (X100 Max)
Tier 2 - 60% < Max Level = 60,000 | Level 36,000 (X50 Max)
Tier 3 - 1000 Levels < Max Level = 60,000 | Level 59,000 (X20 Max)
Tier 4 - Base => Level 59,000 (X10 Max)

As shown tier 1 and 2 are dynamic based on a percentage, tier 3 is dynamic based on the max level at any given time.
In this example 1,000 levels are the maximum space given at all time between tier 3 and 4.

Please accept the above information as ideas, suggestions and opinions.
Everything is subject to change.

Good Day.

Post #37 Subject: Posted at: July 18 2022, 3:25:50 pm

Stabz Donator Gender: Male

Rank: #6 Average
Posts: 99

Proposal 1, meh, not really the best.

Proposal 2, all in allÖ everyone whoís more than 1k levels below top rank can train at a faster multiplier which means they can catch up faster and things get closer? And then number 1 has to maintain activity to stop people catching up too close and over taking? If so, agree. Better than how it is atm.
Post #38 Subject: Posted at: July 18 2022, 3:29:37 pm

Admin Scrooge Donator Gender: Male Staff

Rank: #8 Good
Posts: 242

Proposal 1, open to alternative suggestions.

Proposal 2, your interpretation is correct. In effect the top members will be on the same playing field at the top 1,000 levels. With the adding of EXP to other sections of the game training would be a supplement EXP rather than the main injection of EXP allowing for activity to take a greater effect.

Last edited by Admin Chaos at July 18 2022, 3:32:21 pm, edited 1 times in total.
Post #39 Subject: hmmmmm Posted at: July 18 2022, 10:45:58 pm

Mr P Clause Donator Gender: Male Staff

Rank: #7 Above Average
Posts: 175

interesting cant see the harm on both proposals regards exp within other projects within the game again interesting big game changer possible lol both outcomes n results overall ! lets get it on no harm in trying everything seems a positive n not the negative meta ie slowing n taking away within the game cmon guys n girls surely this is all good for the game forwards eh

Post #40 Subject: Posted at: July 19 2022, 7:16:39 am

Stabz Donator Gender: Male

Rank: #6 Average
Posts: 99

Proposal 1 shouldnít be included until Ďthe other waysí of earning exp are open.

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